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Ada's Twitch Tech Talks ep6. An Interview with Daniel Appelquist

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Daniel Appelquist: Hello Ada Ada: Good to see you

Dan: Good to see you too Ada: Thank you for coming to speak with Ada: me today Dan: Sure Ada: So what are you here Ada: to speak with me about today? Dan: I'm here to talk about the Web OK Dan: And I'm here to talk about some of the work that we're Dan: doing in the W3C and in particular in the TAG, Dan: the technical architecture group, which is the group that I Dan: co-chair and I can talk a little bit about that

Dan: It all sounds very dry and full of three letter acronyms and Dan: not very related to interesting Dan: things in the world especially at Dan: six-thirty on a Friday But actually Dan: it's stuff that makes me really passionate; Dan: makes me excited about the Web and about you Dan: know the future basically Ada: So where Ada: does the TAG sit and the W3C? Ada: What's its relationship to other groups? Dan: So I'm glad you asked that OK so the W3C, Dan: most people I think watching this will know Dan: what the W3C is and will know at least what HTML is right Dan: W3C is the standards Dan: group, It's not technically standard script that doesn't Dan: really matter but you know it's it's the standard script that Dan: works on standards that are related to web technologies

Dan: And famously was setup by Tim Berners-Lee Dan: in the mid 90s Dan: It's a consortium actually of Dan: initially three different academic institutions MIT Dan: in the US, ERCIM in Dan: Europe and Keio university in Japan

Dan: It's since also gained Beihang Dan: University in Beijing as part of that consortium so W3C Dan: as an organization is is a kind of amalgam Dan: of those of those things and it's still very much functions as Dan: a standards development organization an SDO Dan: that works on things relating to the Web Dan: The web platform Dan: And to answer your question the TAG is Dan: a special group within W3C Dan: Within W3C there are two groups that are that Dan: are kind of steering committees Dan: One of them is the Technical Architecture Dan: Group (TAG) which is more focussing on web technologies Dan: and also the architecture of the Web right

Dan: And the other is the Advisory Board which Dan: is also comprised of technical people but but focuses Dan: more on how W3C operates where should they have meetings how Dan: should the funding happen how should they be doing how should Dan: they be looking for new members What should the patent Dan: policy updates be All that kind of stuff which is also Dan: extremely important for how W3C operates and how it functions Ada: So you say it's more of like Ada: a higher level view of what's going on on the Ada: technical level within the W3C? Dan: Well the way that we're functioning right now is Dan: we do we spend an awful lot of our time doing reviews Dan: of other people's work and that's by design Dan: When in 2013 we kind of rebooted the TAG a Dan: little bit and we retooled it to Dan: specifically to function more as Dan: a design review body or as a space specification review body Dan: and we wanted to make it a place where other people who are Dan: developing specifications like say you're developing the geo Dan: location specification a web geo location specification Dan: We wanted to make TAG a place where people Dan: who are developing that spec, the Group chair, Dan: the editor of the specification, people within the group feel Dan: comfortable and feel like it's going to Dan: add value to what they're doing to come to the TAG to ask Dan: for a review Does this fit into the web architecture

Dan: Is this, you know, Dan: is this using best practice as we know it Dan: Are there other things that the TAG can offer Dan: Can the TAG because the TAG looks across all of these Dan: different technologies as they're being developed Dan: Can we find similarities or things Dan: between one spec and another spec that could Dan: that could be that can be better utilized Dan: Right

You know it could be facilitating Dan: things a bit better That's something that we do and also we Dan: do stuff like that outside of W3C too Dan: so on occasion we talk to peoplein IETF for instance Dan: the HTTP working group Dan: Increasingly we're talking to people in the WhatWG group as Dan: well Dan: I won't go into the kind of Dan: details of how W3C and WhatWG function together Dan: But suffice to say you've got a lot of the same people Dan: that are working in both groups

Dan: The tag: we tend to talk to a lot of people in what Dan: in WhatWG as well or in WhatWG work streams as well Dan: because in reality they're very closely aligned with W3C work Ada: So what is that about the Technical Architecture Ada: Group you came to talk to me about today in particular? Dan: Well I wanted to I mean Dan: one of the things that we do, a couple different things Dan: So first of all Dan: we tend to do a lot of developer outreach we tend to try to Dan: raise awareness of the work of the TAG not only because we Dan: want people to know what's Dan: going through our pipeline we want people to kind of we want Dan: to be able We want to be a force for good in terms of Dan: demystifying standards work and also trying to encourage Dan: more developers to get involved in this Dan: In the standards work itself and in some cases Dan: when we're doing a Dan: what we call a design review where somebody has developed a Dan: specification and they come to us for review and maybe they've Dan: got maybe there's an early version of this Dan: which is part of a very early build of Chrome or some other Dan: browser and they want us Dan: they want us to give feedback

Dan: That can also be a good time for developers to chime in Dan: So our designer reviews are actually run Dan: on GitHub everything we do is in the public in the clear Dan: We get these spec developers to come in Dan: and raise a design review Dan: issue with us We have a template that automatically should Dan: tells them all the information they need to fill up Dan: Yeah it's all done in the Clare spec developers or spec Dan: authors come to us and they ask for a review Dan: they fill out a template

Dan: It's typical work style they can refer to their own issues Dan: because many of these specifications are being developed in Dan: other places in GitHub anyway Dan: So they tell us: "we need a review we're interested in your Dan: feedback on X Y Z Dan: Here's our explainer document about what the specification is Dan: and can you please review it?" So that that's an ideal time Dan: for actually for developers as well to get to Dan: raise to give it Dan: some attention and to have a look as well, Dan: and maybe feedback on our GitHub issue right Dan: So even so even though in general we're having a discussion Dan: in those issues between members of the TAG and usually Dan: people who are other people working in Dan: standards or the spec and or the spec authors themselves Dan: and the group chairs what have you Dan: It's also a good time for people to honestly to give us their Dan: feedback

So you know this would be really useful to me or Dan: this is not going to be helpful or this breaks Dan: X Y Z accessibility issue Dan: Right Dan: Speaking of that the other thing that we do in the TAG is Dan: we encourage people who are asking for a design Dan: review We encourage them to look through certain checklists Dan: and certain information like: Have Dan: you looked at this from that accessibility Dan: standpoint? Have you looked at this from a security and Dan: privacy standpoint? Dan: Have you read our design our API design guidelines? Dan: Those are things that we're looking to do more of Ada: Your looking to write more guidelines? Dan: We're looking to encourage developers or spec Dan: developers when they're requesting a tax review to be thinking Dan: about to already have gone through a lot of these guidelines Dan: and already have been thinking about these things

Dan: Because that's what we're going to be evaluating when we look Dan: at the specification we're going to be looking at with these Dan: things in mind Dan: So on that note one of the areas that we are Dan: we're actually looking to expand that and I'm doing some work Dan: right now thinking about how we could be applying Dan: more ethical guidelines to the development Dan: of web technologies Ada: What What kind of ethical thinking Did you have Ada: in mind here? Dan: The W3C in many ways is already Dan: and is already seen as very Dan: strong on certain ethical principles Dan: So things like internationalization Dan: accessibility and security and privacy which I already Dan: mentioned are kind of Dan: baked into the culture Dan: of W3C everybody Dan: in W3C sees those issues as important and Dan: not only important but essential that their accessibility Dan: is is a non optional feature

Dan: Privacy increasingly is not optional as well Dan: And we have a security and privacy self check Dan: which kind of gives spec developers a lot Dan: of ideas about what they should be looking for in their spec Dan: when they're evaluating it to understand Dan: "Does this promote user privacy?" Right Dan: So those are those are topics that are already kind of getting Dan: into this area of tech ethics Dan: What we're proposing is to kind of or I should say Dan: this is work that I'm doing right now and you know with some Dan: positive support and positive feedback Dan: from TAG members as well as from other people in the W3C Dan: community where I presented this to the Dan: advisory committee about three or four weeks ago and had a Dan: pretty good response

Dan: So besides privacy and security and internationalization Dan: and accessibility how else could Dan: we be thinking about web technologies to try to encourage the Dan: web to be a more ethical Dan: platform or a tool to have to have the Web Dan: be a platform that has Dan: a societal benefit at its core right Dan: So and that's really kind Dan: of my focus right now Dan: I've been thinking about this a lot how the web Dan: was originally designed to Dan: be a social benefit to people and Dan: it's not it's not just a place where you can buy more Dan: Pokemon dolls even though that's a very worthy Dan: cause Don't get me wrong it's also a place Dan: that should be shielding your rights that should be Dan: a platform that encodes human rights Dan: at the core of the Dan: technology stack itself in some ways Dan: And I've mentioned privacy and security internationalization Dan: accessibility

Those are some very good examples Dan: We're also looking at things like where Dan: else can, we be encoding human rights Dan: basically into that core technology stack Dan: So I wrote a blog post a little while back Dan: Kind of talking about this like the web you know Dan: with some ideas of some new technical principles or ethical Dan: principles which we could then reduce into technical Dan: guidelines that we could actually, that the spec Dan: developers could actually be looking at or thinking about when Dan: they're developing their specs So things like there is Dan: one Web, right? A one Web principle which is actually not Dan: written down anywhere right

Dan: We all kind of say we all like say oh there's one Web Dan: What does that What does that mean? Dan: It could mean in one way one web means I Dan: should be able to use any device any platform any Dan: screen size and I should get by and large a thematically Dan: consistent user experience I should be seeing Dan: the same content on BBC if I view it on my on Dan: my phone as I do If I view it on the desktop Dan: In another way it also means Dan: the web should not be enabling regional or national borders

Dan: We shouldn't have a web where you can't access Dan: certain content from certain Dan: locations Dan: That's part of being one web, Dan: rather I should say the web platform itself should Dan: not enable that It should not be encoded into the web Dan: platform to enable those kinds of regional Ada: So it's the kind of thing that might happen due Ada: to government Ada: interference on a national scale Dan: Exactly

Dan: But it's not something that we as web platform architects Dan: should enable Dan: The hooks for that shouldn't be built into the web itself Dan: Right And so I think that's the important kind Dan: of difference there Dan: The web should not be a detriment to society

Dan: So one of the things that we that we thought about was when Dan: you know when adding a new technology to the Web you Dan: have to evaluate it for the potential harm it could do Dan: What could people be doing with this that Dan: could harm marginalized groups for instance or you know Dan: because those kinds of use cases or Dan: abuse cases are often not thought about when you have a bunch Dan: of technologists that sit in a room together that Dan: are coming from a privileged position and they aren't thinking Dan: about maybe the needs of marginalized groups as much Dan: So how can we make sure that we're encoding Dan: that thinking and that we are thinking about those abuse cases Dan: potentially Dan: I have more but Ada: So this kind of makes Ada: me think, from having this discussion as two Ada: white people in the UK Dan: Yeah Ada: So what if this is the W3C Ada: doing to encourage Ada: these discussions to not just be Ada: rooms full of white people having Ada: discussions about what is essentially a technology Ada: for the entire world Dan: That's an incredibly important thing to think about right now

Dan: And the other talk I gave actually Dan: at the W3C advisory committee meeting Dan: three weeks ago where I actually shared the stage with Leonie Dan: Watson was about how Dan: W3C as an organization should be encouraging more Dan: people from diverse backgrounds from marginalized communities Dan: from traditionally underrepresented Dan: groups and nationalities and locations Dan: to be participating in W3C Dan: One way in which we're trying to do that is by putting Dan: in place diversity scholarships Dan: So last year at the TPAC meeting which Dan: is a technical plenary and advisory committee meeting Dan: which happens every year, it's a W3C Dan: week where a bunch of groups meet together in one Dan: place WCC only usually does this once Dan: a year Dan: Unlike some other standards bodies which have set Dan: three or four or five meetings a year W3C usually only has one Dan: week like this year and it can be extremely important for Dan: people to actually go to this to this TPAC Dan: week to see their colleagues to Dan: have those corridor conversations Dan: to get that kind of face to face time with people Dan: that enables them to have better understanding so that then Dan: when the next week when they're on a conference call with Dan: somebody or a video call it Dan: makes it easier to get along basically and it makes it easier Dan: It allows work to get to get done in a better way Dan: so it can be really important for people to be able to attend Dan: meetings like that

So one of the things that I actually Dan: suggested last year was that top section of the diversity Dan: scholarship we at Samsung put Dan: a thousand pounds forward Dan: Some other people at other companies including Microsoft put Dan: money forward as well Dan: We ended up being able to sponsor some number of candidates to Dan: come or delegates rather to come to Dan: TPAC So we're doing that again this year Dan: Right

So that's that's one way Dan: So what does the diversity scholarship cover Dan: Is it a ticket to TPAC or travel? Dan: It covers all it covers a ticket Dan: It also covers travel Dan: That's the idea

So it's an all inclusive Dan: And we're doing it again this year as I said I hope that we're Dan: going to have even more funds to spend W3C Dan: is administering it Dan: I can leave a link in the video here Dan: To say what the URL is to find out more Dan: We're also taking that same approach to workshops

Dan: So another thing that W3C does is they run workshops Dan: We have participated in and chaired a number of workshops Dan: That was a workshop last year about permissions Dan: and consent which was really pretty important Dan: There's going to be another workshop coming up in July or on Dan: Web games we've participated in and hosted Dan: a number of workshops around immersive web WebVR but WebXR Dan: So increasingly because we also want to bring those Dan: voices to workshops as well because workshops are where Dan: new work is specced out right

Dan: It's where people present papers and out of that comes Dan: a or at or position statements and out of that Dan: discussion comes often a charter Dan: for a working group that can include what the deliverables Dan: that working group are going to be and what the dependencies Dan: of that work are So it's actually essential that we get Dan: those kinds of voices underrepresented voices Dan: in those workshops as well Dan: And so we're working with W3C to try and make that happen Dan: And again that would cover travel as well as workshops Dan: don't generally have a fee but it would cover travel and Dan: travel as the main issue Dan: There are other blocking issues of course many people don't Dan: have the time to spend they can't afford to take the time away Dan: from work to go spend time on these things

Dan: That's another set of challenges and we need to figure out how Dan: to address those challenges Dan: I mean diversity scholarships isn't the whole answer Dan: We've also got to create a more inclusive environment within Dan: W3C and working with Tzviya Dan: who is on the AB is working Dan: on a work stream which is that positive work environment task Dan: force where we're really trying to Dan: W3C already have a code Dan: of conduct which is the code of professional conduct Dan: It needs an update It's not up to date with the latest Dan: thinking around what codes of conduct need to look like and Dan: how specific they need to be how detailed they need to be Dan: and how proactive they need to be Dan: Right And so we're actually we've actually Dan: interacted on a few threads on GitHub

Dan: Again that work is happening on GitHub Dan: I think that work is headed in the right in the right Dan: direction because the general consensus seems to be that we Dan: need to update this and make it more in line with Dan: the best practices out there Things like the contributor Dan: covenant for instance that are really at the forefront Dan: of that So that's all about helping W3C to Dan: be more inclusive so that's not a place that once Dan: the people from the marginalized groups come to TPAC Dan: they don't suddenly feel like this is not for me Dan: This is something you know I'm not being listened to

Dan: I'm not being asked what my opinion is Dan: This is a very off putting the culture doesn't culture doesn't Dan: work for me That's the kind of stuff that we need to fix as Dan: well There are two major Dan: things there Ada: So the article you're going through here this is the one you Ada: wrote? Dan: This is the one I wrote

Yeah Dan: And it's what it's essentially what I presented it at Dan: W3C as well and what I got the feedback on so I've Dan: been not only have I've been getting feedback from people in Dan: the W3C community but I've also been reaching out to other Dan: communities and including academic ethicists Dan: too and people such as the Web Foundation Dan: So the Web Foundation is another group that was founded Dan: by Team Berners-Lee and focuses more at Dan: the Dan: how shall I say it, the Dan: advocacy level the working Dan: with governments working with NGOs and more Dan: It's more about opening the web and ensuring the life Dan: of the web at a social level Dan: Wright says a work stream going on there called the Dan: Contract for the web

Dan: I participated in a call having to do with that earlier in the Dan: week I was impressed by the commitment of the people that Dan: were involved in that call including many people from NGOs Dan: and big companies as well that are Dan: that are really trying to flesh that out and to make Dan: that work Dan: So Dan: we need to get that feedback, bring it back Dan: into this work that we're doing and then create Dan: a set of principles and I'm looking to do this in the next Dan: three or four weeks actually publish a real Dan: first draft so that we can then get Dan: some feedback on from the W3C community and we can kind of Dan: publish it as a TAG output Ada: So what do you consider that being in this document Dan: So besides things that I mentioned earlier about human rights Dan: I think there are certain things that I've talked about before Dan: like internationalization the web is for all people, low Dan: bandwidth networks Dan: that might also be part of that

Dan: People who are on small Dan: footprint devices on low bandwidth networks need to be Dan: included in the web so we need to make sure that Dan: when new web technologies are being Dan: developed that the people that are working on and take it Dan: take that into account take those issues into account security Dan: and privacy I already mentioned freedom of expression Dan: is a really tough one Ada: Yeah Dan: You gave me some good feedback on this as well Dan: I mean obviously one of the functions of the web is to Dan: be a communication Dan: tool Right

And to level the playing field of communication Dan: so that anybody can communicate with anybody else so that Dan: anybody can share information with anybody else Dan: That is the primary social good that it was intended Dan: to to do Dan: Now in recent Dan: years frankly there has Dan: been a trend towards a lot of negative Dan: speech, speech that has negative impact Dan: like hate speech for instance in some countries Dan: Hate speech is outlawed, in some you Dan: know there's a real patchwork of regulatory around hate Dan: speech Dan: So the web needs to enable Dan: freedom of expression but it should not be construed Dan: to mean that any service that is built on top of web Dan: technologies must enable unfettered speech

Dan: In my view and I think that's it that's it that's it Dan: That's an interesting balance to maintain Dan: So we should not have people Dan: claiming that a specific I won't mention Dan: any names but specific like broadcast services Dan: that they cannot ban certain people for being hate Dan: mongers because "free speech" Dan: That's not what the Web enables freedom of expression means Dan: But it does mean that at the core of the Web should be Dan: enabling this Dan: right to the right of freedom of expression Dan: which is a core human right

Ada: So like: free speech up until the point at which it Ada: starts to impinge on the freedoms of others Dan: Exactly right Because that needs Dan: That needs to be subservient to the main goal of encoding Dan: human rights and of supporting human rights and having Dan: human rights at the core of the thinking this is and this was Dan: an interesting topic that came up in the contract for the web Dan: discussion as well this is this is at the fore of everybody's Dan: mind right now Dan: Truthfulness of information, the Web must enable you being Dan: able to research the truthiness of information infact there's Dan: some work going on in W3C right now "the credible web" Dan: work which is all about how can we Dan: put hooks into web technologies into web standards Dan: that could actually Dan: better enable people to research the truthfulness of Dan: information or perhaps better enable people to write Dan: extensions for your browser that could Dan: flag when you are seeing something when you're reading Dan: something that actually is not true or that actually has been Dan: debunked or stuff like that

Ada: To make it a lot easier to find the source of the news Ada: article you are reading Dan: Exactly And that source is a key architectural principle Dan: for the web Right So because the Web is built on top Dan: of many architectural layers and one of those architectural Dan: layers is origin and HTTP origin or the Dan: URL, any Web technology, Dan: the TAG has tended to push back on any new web technology or Dan: trend that diminishes the importance of the URL or diminishes Dan: or breaks the web security model which is based on Dan: Origin

Right Dan: Because in that case you are muddying Dan: the waters You might not actually know where the content Dan: comes from I'll give you a very specific example which is Dan: Google AMP Ada: I was thinking the exact same thing

Dan: I mean one of the criticisms that members of the TAG had about Dan: Google AMP is this, I think they're doing something to address Dan: this, but it still continues to be an issue is Dan: when you see an article Dan: when you when you make a search in your favourite search Dan: engine and you see Dan: an article and you're reading it right there and you're Dan: address bar says search-engine-dot-com Dan: Right But the actual source the article is Dan: evil-dot-com Right Dan: Or you know unreliable-dot-com Dan: then

But how do you know that besides Dan: what your browser is telling you about where this article Dan: comes from where where is where this is from Dan: It becomes even more important if that piece of content that Dan: they're viewing actually requests some kind of permissions Dan: like location permissions or the ability to send you Dan: push notifications or stuff like that because then you're Dan: answering that question for Google-dot-com Dan: or for search-engine-dot-com Dan: But you don't know yet that you've actually answered it for Dan: for content that's coming from unreliable-dot-com Ada: Would this also apply for like Facebook Instant Articles? Dan: It gets exactly the same thing Dan: It's fashionable to to hate Google about this Dan: but it applies to its place the same way for Facebook Dan: Instant Articles, Apple News has the same issues

Dan: I mean anytime where Dan: people are trying to create an experience where it kind of Dan: muddies the water between what the real Dan: origin of the information is and what URL you're seeing Dan: Sustainability Dan: is another thing that we're that we're looking at like how can Dan: we make sure that the Web is green Dan: How can we make sure that the Web is at least not Dan: adding huge amounts of power consumption to Dan: to an already very power thirsty system Dan: The web is not great when it comes to green technology Dan: It consumes a lot of power

Dan: Some of that is out of scope for what we can do in W3C Dan: but is there something that we can think about could Dan: we be at least thinking about that when we're at the design Dan: stage of new APIs is is this going to drive the GPU Dan: Quite a lot on your phone That's going to make your you run Dan: out of battery quite easily Ada: That's a bit problematic for me as co-chair Ada: of the immersive web working group where we Ada: we will eat up your camera your GPU you and Ada: and will run everything on the device as hot as it will go Dan: So that's right

And that's the that's the Dan: tension there right You want you want the people that are Dan: producing content for the immersive I want it to be 60 frames Dan: per second and immersive and completely and that kind of Dan: thing But you know you're also running it on Dan: devices that first of all that they can they get very hot Dan: and then they shut down the minute they get too hot and Dan: you end up with like you're watching like a you're in a 3-D Dan: scene and then suddenly it just says you need to Dan: take the phone out of the headset now because it's too hot Dan: But also it doesn't match users Dan: expectations with regards to how long their phone battery Dan: should last You know that kind of thing

Dan: I guess when you're thinking about phones in particular that Dan: are plugged into headsets that becomes more of an issue Dan: But even so you know there's a balance there Dan: in the balance We have to make sure that we think that we Dan: put the hooks into the web platform so that service providers Dan: can enable that balance and can create content that Dan: is both green and Dan: provides a great user experience Dan: And Dan: by the way there is one other thing that Dan: we have in the web which we talk about a lot which Dan: is this order of constituents, a Dan: priority of constituents Dan: And that's something that's often referred to Dan: by Web specification developers people in W3C

Dan: They talk about what's the primary Dan: order of constituents order of priority of Dan: constituents is first and foremost the users and users right Dan: Actually user is a word and I'm trying to get out of my Dan: lexicon normally so people read people using the web Dan: and then secondary to that are things like Dan: the platform developer the browser so the browser Dan: developer or the web application developer themselves Dan: And then you know at the very bottom of the list is Dan: theoretical purity Dan: So and that order of constituents is something Dan: that people talk about a lot but actually Dan: you know what Doing some research I found it wasn't it wasn't Dan: ever written down in Dan: what I would call a stable place

Dan: It's been written in a few different places but Dan: actually having it written down in a TAG document Dan: would probably give it more longevity Dan: So that's another area Dan: That's another ethical principle that probably we need to Dan: apply to the world Dan: There are a few other things here But I mean I Dan: I'll leave the URL

Dan: I Dan: think the web being inspectable is Dan: another key issue maybe Where it's Dan: important that, the Web was built, Dan: A lot of people who grew up on the web or or learned Dan: development by learning the Dan: web learned it through view source Dan: Now, with the current way that the Dan: web works, view source itself is Dan: not often very useful because you're not getting Ada: By view source you mean when you right click on the page and Ada: go view source and then you see the Ada: underlying HTML and CSS and JavaScript Dan: That's right And that allows you as a developer to say Oh Dan: that's neat Now I see how they did that Dan: I can steal that and I can use it in my thing and that's how Dan: that's how web development works

Dan: That's how developers operate and that really helps to just Dan: share knowledge and that kind of thing Dan: But currently I would say the with Dan: the more likely thing that you are to do as a web developer is Dan: to bring up developer tools and inspect what's Dan: going on and that inspect ability Dan: is now really important for not Dan: only is important for developers to learn what's going on but Dan: it's also important for say you Dan: are a web extension developer that Dan: wants to develop an extension that is Dan: telling people about the truthfulness of information that they might see on the Web Well being Dan: able to inspect the Web sites of the 100 most Dan: popular news sources is Dan: pretty important in understanding what they're doing under the Dan: covers so that you can build an extension that can then apply Dan: itself correctly to those to those Web pages Dan: So it's it's that inspectability that is a is Dan: a key factor that keeps the web honest Dan: And it also is part of like not having Dan: any black boxes on the web

Ada: So keeping it machine readable as well as Human Readable? Dan: That's right That's right So those are some of the things Dan: that I'm thinking about right now Dan: On my mind Dan: Does it make sense does it make sense

Ada: I think it makes sense Yeah Ada: Is there anything you want that people who watch that video to Ada: to take away from it? or to check out? Dan: Well keep tabs of Dan: what we're doing in the TAG through our GitHub Dan: You can take a look at our GitHub and our issues register in Dan: our design repos I'll leave a link to that alongside Dan: of this video

You can also keep Dan: tabs on us through our Twitter which is W3C Tag Dan: We're running developer events Dan: Our next one is coming up in Reykjavik on the 21st Dan: of May That's going to be exciting Dan: It's first time I've ever been to Reykjavic and I'm hoping Dan: that we're going to get some developers coming to our Dan: developer event there

Dan: So if you live in Reykjavik or near Reykjavik then please come Dan: along But keep track of where we're meeting in Dan: the future too because more than likely we're going to be Dan: having a developer event wherever we need Ada: Fantastic Would you say following Ada: the TAG through GitHub is a good way to keep a Ada: track of a high level overview of all the exciting things Ada: happening in the Web? Dan: Definitely I mean I think following Dan: us on Twitter is also going to be important

You know there's Dan: a lot of stuff out our GitHub can get pretty chaotic so we Dan: try and cover the main points there Dan: We also if you're interested and you have Dan: a lot of time all of our minutes are posted on Dan: GitHub and not only that but when you take a look at our Dan: meetings repo you'll be able to see Dan: the agenda for our coming meetings, our coming calls, and Dan: we actually publish a viewable live minutes URL Dan: where if you care to tune in during Dan: that time you can actually see our minutes being taken live Dan: I mean we're that serious about being kind of radically Dan: transparent in the TAG Dan: So all our minutes are public Dan: you know public kind of stuff but yeah Dan: definitely the main work that we're doing these days is Dan: in the design reviews repo and that's in the issues where Dan: we're having a lot of discussions Ada: Cool

Ada: Well I think that Ada: everything Ada: Thank you so much for coming to speak with me today Ada: It's been it's been really nice And I'm sure I Ada: speak to you again soon Dan: Yes

Dan: Awesome Thank you Ada: Bye Everyone

Source: Youtube

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