Taming 2000-3000HP With Torque Management | Tony Palo [TECH TALK]

– These days there's no shortage of Nissan GT-Rs pushing 2000, even 3000 horsepower but of course all of that power is useless if you can't get it to the track And this is where managing the power delivery or the torque delivery is so critical

So we're here with Tony Palo from T1 Race to talk about how that's managed in the Motec M150 ECU So Tony the more typical way of managing torque in a turbocharged car is really by adjusting the boost targets and often this is done as the car goes down the track Now with the M150 package it's quite different in the way the ECU actually works in that it's what's referred to as a torque based ECU So can you tell us what the differences are between a torque based system and a conventional ECU? – Yeah so almost any new car on the road now is a torque based system It offers a lot of advantages

Whatever the reason is that you're limiting power or torque, it all boils down to torque, whether it's the engine or transmission failing, or traction, it all comes down to torque And so if we can maintain torque flat to redline, we can have a lot more horsepower than a typical torque curve that just peaks and falls So the M150 for the GT-R incorporates a full torque based strategy that works really well So that'll control throttle and/or boost to meet your torque limit So that torque limit based on gear, speed, driver switch, whatever you want

– Now one of the reasons that is critical even in a relatively modest power GT-R is because the torque needs to be modulated for the transmission to shift is that correct? – So there's different things, so we control torque under power, typically just for traction Or if it's, we're knock limited, maybe we're on 93 octane and the turbo could make a lot more But then there's also the torque reduction strategy that has to happen on the shifts So the way it works on these is the TCM sends a request for torque reduction, and we have the option to fully listen to that request and obey that request, or at higher torque levels when we're making more torque than the TCM is kind of programmed for, then we take over to a full M1 strategy on that So we'll use the TCM request in full at lower torques so drivability's just like stock, and then at higher power we have a threshold above 500, 800 foot pounds of torque, we go to a full M1 based strategy that is initiated by the TCM requesting and then it's all on board in the M1

– Now in terms of the tuner's aspect, this sounds like it could be quite complex tuning all of the associated data or tables related to that so does that make it any more difficult or is this all handled automatically in the background by the Motec? – It gives you more control – Sorry I'm talking about more in terms of does tuning the actual engine, so fuel and ignition strategy, so when you're actually on the dyno, do you need to tune a torque table to tell the ECU for a given throttle position or boost pressure versus RPM, how much torque the engine is actually producing, or is the ECU calculating or modelling that in the background? – It's calculating and modelling all that So it's primarily looking at your engine displacement and your volumetric efficiency It assumes you're at MBT so if you've got 10 degrees of timing out of it and it's making a lot more torque than it thinks you're making, there are compensation tables that you can go in if you find that the dyno doesn't agree with this, maybe the V table's off a little bit, whatever it is, you can make it as right as you want For most cars, as long as you're keeping torque reasonably flat, everything's gonna work well

It's not super critical that it's accurate to 50 foot pounds Because we're not doing this going oh I know I can't go past this number So if it's working well and it's within 30 or 50 pounds, it's gonna work the same as if it wasn't – I'll just elaborate on what you talked about there for those who maybe, that's new to, so MBT timing so that's where we're making maximum torque So the ECU, in this case the M1's, just assuming that we're always at MBT timing and a lot of OE applications that use torque modelling, they'll actually have a modification to the torque that's calculated based on how far away from MBT timing we are

So in this case that's not happening in the M1 as you say, not really essential for the way you're using it So once it's actually tuned, once you've go the car off the dyno, let's talk about some of those advantages with the torque based ECU So how are you then manipulating the torque output as the car goes down the track? What access have you got, what control have you got over that? – I typically do torque by gear because the reality is the second that gear changes, you've changed the torque to the tyre and you can have more boost And gear recognition is something that happens instantly on these So as soon as it changes gear, it shoots up to new torque limit

Assuming you were reducing torque for traction It'll control boost, when you're going down the track it's always gonna be boost control, you're at high enough boost I set 'em up, launch control and traction control are always active If I'm not at full torque and it's not spinning, then it needs more, right So I want it to be touching traction control here and there in every gear

– When you're just coming into that traction control just very slightly it means you're right on that limit of the available traction? – Sure, if you're not spinning and you're not at full power, the car can go faster – Now in a lower sort of power application as well you've mentioned the fact you've got the ability to use boost and or throttle control So obviously if you're in a position where you're already below the minimum wastegate spring pressure, we can't use boost control to drop the boost any further so this is where the throttle control strategy comes in So can you talk to us about how that works? – So you're gonna be 100% on the pedal and the ECU will, you'll have your torque limit and as torque approaches that, it'll just roll back the throttle to maintain torque there A typical, this car for example makes 1500 horsepower

I can run it at 700 foot pounds of torque and it'll be at 15% throttle position at higher RPM but it'll hold it nice and steady – Look it's really impressive the advances we've seen in these aftermarket ECUs and obviously this is why we're starting to see these cars go faster and faster So thanks for the time to give us some insight into how that all works and we'll let you get back to tuning, thank Tony – Cool thanks If you liked that video, make sure you give it a thumbs up and if you're not already a subscriber, make sure you're subscribed

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