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Beauty meets tech | Vogue Codes expert panel | Vogue Australia


It can be really, really dangerous because you're letting, you're putting so much power into something that you really don't have control over 'Cause we first met you really through your YouTube tutorials

Yes Which were mainly make-up tutorials, right? Yes So, how are you finding the appetite for those these days? Because, everyone seems to be doing them Yes How have you evolved your content with that in mind? When I started back in 2011 it was all about education, it was all about how to apply false lashes or winged liner or how to do a smokey eye, whereas, I feel like because that content's been around for a while now, everyone's kind of learned how to do it

It's all about entertainment now, so it's more so like grabbing someone's attention and entertaining them, because there's so many people trying to grab your attention When I started there weren't many people in Australia on YouTube, so you kind of just Well I mean, this is almost 10 years ago, wasn't it? Yeah! Yeah, so that's definitely been a huge change for me I mean, it's still a bit of education, but, everyone's already educated now, so there's not much space to be, to do that So I feel like entertainment and education, if you can kind of combine that, then that's the best of both worlds Kate, you've had a career in the business of beauty for over 15 years, and you've been in your current digital role at Lauder for about two

Yeah What are the biggest changes you've seen in digital in that time? I mean, digital's constantly changing, so, there's always new formats to look at I think the rise of shopability on social media has been a big shift for brands But, probably the biggest change we've seen is in the type of content that we're producing for the digital space, and it very much speaks to what Lauren's just mentioned 'Cause it used to be that if you wanted to buy skincare, you would walk into a retail store, have a consultation with a beauty adviser, she'd analyse your skin type and then recommend a regimen of products

But now, the customer is really walking into the retail space already as an expert, 'cause they do have access to so much information online So that moment of education has moved from the store environment to the digital space, and brands really have to focus on providing a lot of product information, features and benefits, encouraging consumer reviews 'Cause recently they did a study in the US, and they found 69 percent of consumers will consult their mobile phone for product information in a store rather than speaking to a shop assistant So, we really need to make sure that that information is readily available for everyone How are you using data to build your very new brand? It is very new, we're only four months old, so, I mean, obviously, I'm a very gut feel person, so I'd love to just be able to do everything on gut, but I think Bec would probably try and have me fired from my own company, from our company

Every day I'm looking at reviews, I'm looking at reviews on our own website, I'm looking for feedback, I'm looking at Adore, where we're also stocked I mean, the reason we did a direct to consumer brand was so that we could understand the customer, and it will, as we grow, the more we will know that it's just Data is a great thing

I used to not really think that, because I'm quite creative, but you need, we're very data informed in everything that we do You have started a hashtag, #notsponsoredjustgood Which I think you've had for a while, and it's become a bit of a sign off on a lot of your unsponsored content Can you talk a little bit about how you first came up with that, and why you did that? Well, I just think for me, I hope this comes across in my content, but I think my biggest point of difference is that it's very, very honest Transparency is the most important thing for me, and it's exactly what Loz was saying

I would hate to endorse a product that I didn't genuinely love myself So I thought, obviously we have to disclose if a post is sponsored, I'm just gonna start doing it the other way as well, so there's absolutely no grey area And I was getting, I work with Mecca a lot, I work with the Estée brands quite a lot, so people would comment on genuine reviews, saying So your audience would kind of call you out? Oh, yes they were, they are scathing! But they said, "Okay well, you're gonna have to let us know that Mecca are paying you", but at the time they were not, so I thought, alright, how do we stop these? And other people have jumped onto that hashtag, so it's not really your hashtag anymore, is it? No it's not, and that's fine, you know, it's there for everyone, it's a public profile, for a reason Democratic Yes, oh that's me, as a democrat

Has there been a collaboration with a particular influencer or a campaign, that has really moved the needle for Estée Lauder the brand, given it's been around for how many years? Forgive my ignorance We've been in the Australian market for 54 years now, so, it definitely was a heritage brand, and six, seven years ago, in the marketplace it was a brand that your mother or your grandmother used So, we did have to make a very bold move in moving into the influencer space, and so the signing of Kendall Jenner in 2014 was a very big moment for the brand And she was amazing in bringing a whole new generation of customer to the Estée Lauder brand In the 48 hours after her signing announcement went out, we had six times the amount of traffic that we normally get on our e-commerce site, and of those visitors, 90 percent were first time visitors to the site

Can we just talk a bit about the social sands shifting with Instagram? I mean, they're changing their algorithms all the time, they're now talking about hiding the visibility of likes, they're kind of like a landlord with all the power, and you guys are renters on very flimsy leases So you don't own your content, the rules are changing, how do you cope with that, given this is your business and you have no control over that? I'm just grateful, I mean, a lot of people get really, really angry with Instagram, and I get it, it's totally frustrating, but, at the end of the day, we wouldn't be where we are without it You've gotta be grateful to the platform for even allowing us to do this for a job So, yeah it's frustrating, but, you've just gotta go with the flow and you can't really control it that much I think getting rid of the likes could be a really, really good thing, I know a lot of small influencers that let their mental health depend on how many likes they get

It can be really, really dangerous, because you're putting so much power into something that you really don't have control over, so I think that could be a really, really amazing thing, but in general, I just go with the flow I mean, if you can't change it, you may as well just adapt to it, because that's the smoothest way through it And is that the reason that both of you are on multiple channels? So, you've obviously got your own podcast as well Is it kind of a bit of a land grab to sort of get as much as you can, so when they change the rules on one channel, you've got other options? For me not so much I started the podcast and I have multiple channels because it's just something that I like doing

I'm a bit like Lauren in that I'm not super fazed by having x number of followers and whatever, engagement percentage and that number of likes, and I think the argument that we see is people saying, "If I don't have that number, I'm gonna miss out on paid collaboration opportunities", but I'm evidence to the contrary In the scheme of things, I'm a micro influencer I'm still working consistently, so as long as the content's good, I don't think the number that that content brings in should matter Ava, how important is listening to your customer and responding to their requests? Have this seen you pivot in your product development? We had this brand, we had these products that we hadn't released into the world yet, and obviously we had a lot of feedback from friends and family and people in our networks, but, you never really know Like, before we launched, before we even switched our website on, we were like, "What if this is the shittiest product that's ever been made, and people break out, and we do all the things we've been trying so hard not to do?" But, thankfully the feedback's been great

But it is so important, and actually we're about to reorder one of our products, well we have reordered it, and actually we've had some feedback that perhaps the fragrance was, from a few people, not too many, that the fragrance was a little bit strong, so we've just completely decreased that On the flip side, I think the negative voices are perhaps sometimes louder than the positive ones, so I think you have to really learn to listen to the right consumer feedback And when there's an overwhelming number of people saying the same thing, that's when it's time to take action

Source: Youtube

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